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Old 13th Nov 2001, 17:54   #1
Siri
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REVIEW Buffy 6.08 Tabula Rasa (spoilers till then)

I'm gonna keep this short and sweet.
I think this was pretty much a lot of classic Buffy wrapped up all in one. There was sillyness, laughter and tears.

I loved it.

Hardly any bad at all. Tho I could easily have done without that last kiss. Again.


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Old 13th Nov 2001, 19:07   #2
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Oh boy, what an emotional roller-coaster! Another excellent ep - had a couple of weak points but overall just a fantastic follow-up to last week. Those who were concerned about a lack of consequences in OMWF - you've been answered in every possible way!

I'd give this 9/10, maybe 9., I haven't decided yet, will have to rewatch! That really surprises me because I was certain it would be a huge letdown after last week.

The whole opening scene with Buffy and Spike was frustrating but believable - Buffy tends to try to avoid dealing with her feelings. I felt really sorry for Spike though.

First - favourite funny lines:

Quote:
Spike: Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks.
Rotflmao at that, quite possibly his best line ever. And
Quote:
Buffy: Ready Randy?
Spike: Ready Joan.
Too funny. Of course the whole mixed-up names and relationships was played for laughs, but for some reason the Giles/Anya thing just didn't tickle me like I felt it should have. The Giles/Spike father/son thing, on the other hand - that was hilarious, and played perfectly.

The Spike as the good vampire:
Quote:
Spike: I help the helpless - I'm the vampire with a soul!
... kinda funny but a little forced. Same thing with the Willow not knowing she's gay etc, but all that was sideline stuff and didn't really detract from the ep as a whole for me.

Now onto the consequences:

Willow/Tara:

Willow has no shame. No remorse, no guilt. She's quite happy to try to manipulate Tara even though she knows that Tara worked out about the last spell. That's not just horrible in relationship terms - it's downright stupid. Why did she even offer to go without magic when she couldn't? Tara didn't suggest that, Willow did. Willow is a fool. Simple as that. And while I was sad when Tara left, I honestly felt she was doing the right thing. It was wrong of Dawn to be angry with Tara, too - but understandable. The one thing that is not clear is this: Tara has certainly left Willow, and moved out of the Summers' house... but since she's still in school this doesn't necessarily mean she's leaving the series, and I really hope she doesn't. Fingies crossed.

Giles/Buffy:

Again hard to watch, and there was more than one tear in my eye during the closing sequences - but again I think he's done the right thing. My main concern is that it won't have the desired effect - it hasn't so far has it? I don't know if Buffy can really stand on her own. She has so much pain to deal with, and I can't imagine her trusting Willow any time soon. Come back soon Files!

Buffy/Spike:

Pretty much what I expected actually, but I'm dying to see what happens next week. I really hope that they start to have Buffy deal with her feelings, rather than just another cop-out - I'll be seriously annoyed if they don't develop matters one way or another! Like, naked bed scenes with JM would help a lot. (see this thread to post your support )

At this stage I'm a total B/S convert, but I'm so trying not to get sucked in, because I just know that they're going to pull the rug out from under us soon!!!

Overall, bloody brilliant. S6 rocks!
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Old 13th Nov 2001, 20:10   #3
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Nice to see Buffy keeping up the quality this week, when I heard some mild spilers about the spell I though it might be an easy way to avoid dealing with last weeks ep head on... I should know better by now

First: Tara MUST not leave...

Apart from that huge flaw in the episode (and like Lynn I hope she stays on the show in some form...) it was a good ep, the forget bit isn't worth detailing... but it was funny and ironic in places... some good moments: Anya creating Bunnies by the score... Spike's Vamp with a soul comments...

Outside that section, lots of consequences... Giles is gone, Tara is out of the Summers home at least... Dawn being pretty unforgiveable IMO, she know's it was Willow's actions... I was disappointed they've taken Willow the addiction route rather than the power corrupts route... frankly that's the easy option and and is done on every teen drama... Spike & Buffy is getting intriguing... just letting us know that last week wasn't a fluke I guess...

9/10

Roll on next week
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Old 13th Nov 2001, 21:45   #4
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Hi!

I just saw the episode and wow I was both in tears of joy and sadness at the same time (isn't that well said? LOL).
I pretty much agree with everything said above and I think ... I am starting to like the idea of Buffy and Spike together!

One more thing, I can't believe noone mentionned it before ... Spike was wearing the tweed costume and thought Giles was father just like in Restless, remember? I thought that was brilliant.

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Old 13th Nov 2001, 23:50   #5
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I loved this episode, and I've been waiting for it almost as long as I was waiting for the musical episode. I have two complaints and thats it.

The first is the episode wasn't long enough. I think they could have stuck with this premise just a little bit longer (not adding jokes but adding character intereaction). I love memory wipe episodes because they're a bit like alternate reality episodes but they usually don't feel as cheap. Basically I would have liked it if the forgetting hadn't been entirely played for laughs even though that was very funny.

Basically I think I was hoping that they would have the persons core personality really shine through as thats all there is if they take away your surface memory. I thought that that would be particularly appropriate after last weeks episode. Was waiting to see just what these people were about. I'm not saying it was absent. Just wasn't quite the focus I expected.

The other complaint is actually more of a query. What was the deal with the spell? Did it have some sort of blast radius or something? Tara and Buffy were the only named folk in the spell so that wasn't it. But everyone in the magic shop was effected and it certainly seemed as if no one outside of the magic shop was effected.

Loved the bit with Spike and Giles as father and son.

Thought Giles and Anya was fun. Wonder if Giles noticed her firm, yet supple... tight embrace.

Joan and Randy were great! "Hey I'm a superhero too!" Loved how they held a nice polite little chat while Joan was straddling him. Very interesting.

Also interesting was Buffy's choice of names. It may have been unintentional but Joan is somewhat similar to Joyce. And the writers had to have some reason for having her choose that name. Just a thought.

Very sad ending overall though. Giles leaving for everyone's good. Tara leaving for her own good. I thought Dawn's reaction was very realistic. Not fair but realistic. Sure Willowwas screwing up but it was Tara's actions that Dawn was unhappy with. I hope this anger will get transfered to Willow as soon as Tara's out of the picture.

As for that. I hope Tara's not out of the picture. Basically this is probably up to the scooby gang. Tara will most likely try to stay away from the group except for possibly Dawn. She may be way more comfortable with herself but most of the was because of Willow so I can't see her doing anything other than a fade. So it would have to be the crew almost forcing her to stick around and hang with them. It would be very sad indeed if "Family" meant nothing after all.

A very fun upbeat episode in general considering all of the heavy things that happen in it. I might have more to say later but for now.

8.5/10
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Old 13th Nov 2001, 23:54   #6
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Ok - first up - Loved the ep. Like many people here, was not expecting the ep to be as good as all that.. but I really enjoyed it.

Whole feel had a first season vibe, but somehow didn't feel dated as they managed to mix the later season character development in to reveal the underlying players characters

This was IMO definitely the most 'scooby-gang' like they've been for a while, and for that alone I thought the ep was worth an 8. But then you had the layers of development from the fall out of last week, add in the cool factor (the whole chase through the tunnels was just sooo cool - not sure why) and mix it all together and the end result was a cracking episode.

9/10

after editHostile - got to agree bout the spell - definite odd area of effect.. I thought that there may be articles specific to each character in the bag - but then that wouldn't explain Spike- instead on repeat view, bag with stuff in seems to be more of the forget herb/flower - so effect was to bump up area of effect around Tara & Buffy (spell's targets) - a little weak (a bit like last weeks - but don't get me started there... )


Tara / Willow
Great interplay between AB and AH this ep.
Wow was there chemistry/ passion & feeling throughout. I loved the little glances throughout the sewer, such great sexual chemistry. Only Buffy could go through the entire motions of a relationship in 45min, from first passion to love, to heartbreak and despair

I also love how Tara's grown from the shy reclusive to the strong / level headed this season(and I must say - attractive in this ep - love the hair) and we got all this in the ep.. the way she had to deal with Willow, and the decision making in the sewer, top drawer stuff. I just hope she doesn't suffer from a reduced role cos she's rocked so far this season.

THP: I agree that abuse of power would be more novel than plain addiction, and that tara citing that as the explicit reason would have been cooler... but I think that's already being covered here. Willow's control of other people, esp Tara, would surely count as abuse - and on a minor point could the addiction not beto the power the magic brings, not the magic itself (though are the two indistinguishable). Nonetheless I do believe that Tara broke up with Willow because of the abuse of that power - she felt violated / abused by Willow's use of magic. Willow may be addicted to using magic, but its the power it brings her that drives her on.

In short, however, top stuff from both of them

Buffy / Giles

Nicely handled by all - again. No major suprises as we kinda knew he was leaving here anyhows. The interplay was good as it always is between these two, and although I can understand his point of view, I have to side with Buffy and say Giles is leaving for the wrong reasons. She needs him, and he should have stayed. She needs a guide, not to be thrown in the deep end, during the worst period of her life... IMO he's not taken the great role-model perspective, but then Buffy wouldn't be interesting without flawed characters making mistakes now would it

On a boring (to some- unfortunately not to me) note I loved the play off and change from Tara/Willow to Giles/Buffy and thought it was great. Definite echos of last week and Tara / Giles' duet. Although very cheesy and unoriginal, I thought a really nice piece of direction and writing and that added an extra touch of class to the ep.

Buffy / Spike
OMG - thought that was so amazingly well done... I NEVER thought I'd love this relationship - but the way Buffy is using Spike I think is great. A really good angle. The rejection in the Bronze and subsequent make out was really awesome. Although I get the feeling, something nasty will come from it - thought it was great -

And as for the whole Joan / Randy thang.... ROTF

Anya/Giles
Ok - world's most unlikely partnering - that also had so much chemistry. Unlike others I really enjoyed the interplay between these two, and they had some of the best lines aswell

Quote:
Anya: Capital? - I never know what you're talking about. loo, shag, brolly What is all that.


Quote:
Giles: What have you done you lunatic women

Anya: Don't blame me you snobby, snotty, thinks-he's-so-great kind of jerk. I feel compelled to take some kind of vengence on you.


The whole bunnies theme was really cool . Gave more detail on theory that - even if you lose your memory, Rational/Irrational fears stay with you (as do major personality traits it seems)

But the best line officially...

Quote:
Xander: hehe (Xander chuckles out loud) Sorry I just got back the memory of King Ralph


Now that was funny

Music
Well - we had a live band again... another plus point


/me sighs - oh well another song to find on Morpheus

Stunts
Spike. Fighting. Nuff said. <VBG>


And in parting - I leave with one of the most ironic lines for a while - esp coming from the Buffster

Quote:
Buffy: Me too; hate suffering, had about as much of it as I can take


My dear - you live in Joss' world - the one thing you can guarantee is heartbreak and pain - and as tonights episode demonstrates the successful blend of heartbreak / pain and humour sure as hell makes for fine viewing Given the man's track record - she'd better get used to it, cos I doubt if he will (and hope he doesn't) change a winning formula

==============================================
Mike

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Old 14th Nov 2001, 00:12   #7
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IF AMBER LEAVES, I WILL CRY, THEN HUNT DOWN THE WRITER AND ........................................mmmmmmm CRY more!

one thing, was defently a great ep, but what kills it in the end is, them kissing, I really think they could have played that a bit better, maybe having that whole scene longer, with actual speech, not buffy turning from her feelings, then clip to jumpin on him!

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Old 14th Nov 2001, 02:15   #8
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Having seen the memory loss thing done in just about every SF/Fantasy/Horror genre show to date, I was as sceptical about this ep as I was about the musical but like last week, no disappointment here!

Willow really needs to take a look at her life, realise her mistakes (and admit she has a problem) and move on right now. She has already lost Tara by the looks of it and she may end up losing her friends if she's not careful. You have to know that you have a problem when you claim to be able to go a week without magic easily and are casting a spell the very next morning!

Giles leaving seems right to me, Buffy also needs to start getting on with her life and she will just keep on "going through the motions" if Giles is always there to bail her out of every little problem. I can see Buffy's point of view however and she isn't the only one who is sorry to see him go, count me in too.

Poor Buffy though, of all of them she has the worse reaction to getting memories back and no surprise there. For a short time she had no pain or problems and was able to appriciate the benefits of being a "superhero" and then all of a sudden she gets all the pain back again. That must be like being "expelled from heaven" all over again! Her feelings for Spike seem to reflect that as well. She only seems to want him when she is reminded of the pain and clearly doesn't love him, but while I don't think using people is a good thing (though he didn't seem to mind much ) when you are hurting it is just nice to feel loved by someone.

Dawn's response to Tara was harsh, but again I think it was understandable. Inside I think she knows that Willow is the one who has screwed up the relationship and that Tara has to leave, but she is a teenager (as she was quick to point out to everyone ) and so being typically self absorbed she is feeling abandoned.

And finally onto Tara, who really wanted to make her relationship work which is a credit to her as her reactions in Once More, With Feeling that it was done would have been the easy way out. Typically, Willow screwed up again and I fear it is only going to get worse for her. As to what Tara will do next, I doubt that the others will abandon her as it was clearly Willow's own doing, but like the rest of the posters her I don't want to see her go for good.

As this review draws to it's conclusion I realise that I haven't talked about the funny stuff, which is really what stood out about this ep and it's this emotional rollercoster that sets the show above all others.

Most of the best bits revolved around Spike (sorry Randy ) and Giles, but there was some nice moments with Buffy (Joan ) and Dawn realising they were sisters, Buffy dissing Angel without realising it, Anya summoning bunnies and still being afraid of them and the fact that she seems to argue with all her boyfriends and feels the need for vengence I also liked Giles line "no wonder I'm leaving you" and Willow being confused about being gay (flash backs to Dopplegangland there for me )

I did think the shark guy was stupid though and the kitten thing, while being funny the first time, is just plain silly here. I hope they will let the joke die now. Still, only one complaint from the ep can't be bad. Not perfect, not as good as last week, but excellent stuff none the less. 8.5/10 I think
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 02:34   #9
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Everyone:

Hmm, for once I get to see the ep as scheduled... joy of potatoes is that I'm the 9th to post... cool!

Onto the review...


The Spell

OK, knowing nothing about the spells, I have to voice another major objection -- in Superstar, Jonathan had to change the world's perception (or at least Sunnydale) of him; must have been a killer to do & maintain... So, we get a similar spell by Willow to affect several people, and it takes one flower, a crystal and a few words? Screams "cheap plot device" to me. Plus, as with Superstar, I would have thought the spell would have affected more than just the Gang, but oh well....


Willow & Tara:

OK, given my issues with the spell, can I just say how much I liked the resolution of this arc? Loved TB, gonna be sorry to see her leave. However, unlike the others, while I'll miss her, if JAC are serious about this "Willow going dark" arc, can't really say I can see her coming back. I felt awful about Seth Green leaving in S4 (not as bad as he must feel after his movie career the last 2 years ...), but it was the best for Willow's character development. Ironic that we really saw their chemistry in the ep Tara & Willow broke up (but if JAC know how to do one thing, it's breakup eps)....



Buffy & Spike

OK, it was cheap, it was an easy ending -- but y'know, I totally bought it! Have to say SMG has the "despondant Buffy" look down -- almost shed a tear seeing her in the bar. Unlike S3/S4 mopey Buffy, I really have enjoyed SMG's portrayal of Buffy struggling to find meaning in her life. The "Joan" stuff was classic, and although obvious, the Angel parody was still LOL's! Major props too for having see the pre-Body Buffy re-appear, the wise-cracking Slayer with the joie-de-vivre we've come to love so much. What I like most is that everyone got to keep their memory of this -- really made her pain even more heart-wrenching to watch.


As for B/S, loved the Joan/Randy stuff, especially how much chemistry they had in the yard scene with him still in vamp mode (shades of B/A there). What I loved, however, was how Spike just came to the bar and didn't say a word -- his longing was palpable beyond speech. Short of a B/A reunion, I'll take this gladly. But, one thing I know I'll regret -- the more likeable B/S become, the more heartbreak JAC will devise for us.....


Buffy & Giles

OK, no new ground -- but it was a nice (albeit heartbreaking) sendoff for ASH! While I'd love to see him hang around, I'll put my vote for "Ay" re: his departure. Unless we want to see Giles act as a surrogate father, really can't see a useful role for him right now. And, as pointed out, her dependence on him is keeping Buffy in neutral -- for better or worse, she has to go on her own and find her way.

As for Anya/Giles, while I'd normally see some future foreboding, here I think it's just a nice sendoff for ASH... However, after seeing the promo didn't really understand how they could write this couple in -- kudos for making it credible (but deductions for the spell itself)...

I only hope ASH's series can have half the brilliance this series has had.....


Scoobies & Dawn

I really enjoyed Dawn's behaviour the most -- the natural connection she shared with "Joan", and the ending scene with Tara -- most realistic. I know some of the members don't like her, but I've found her development as a character to be a plus. On a final note, loved the "I'm scared - this feels familiar" line.....

As for Xander, great one-liners, and a nice touch by having a Xander/Willow coupling, even if it was for all of 10 minutes...


Black Hats

OK, shark guy was funny enough, but really a bunch of cream puffs -- however, if these guys were any good, the Scoobies and Joan/Randy would have been toast at the Magic Shop. With that in mind, hopefully this is the last we see of Fin boy...


Stunts & Score

OK, great stunt work -- loved the multiple stakings by Xander/Spike/Buffy!

As for the score, nice stuff -- and a great ending live song! Shades of S1/S2, a big from me!


Overall

After the brilliance of Once More, With Feeling, I was expecting a letdown (think Phases, Doomed, etc. for reference)... To be honest, other than OMWF & Afterlife, I can't think of a better ep! Great wrapup & sendoffs for ASH & TB, and a great ending moment! Only point I'm taking off is for the spell angle, so I'm giving this a 9.0/10!

Cheers,
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 02:50   #10
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Absolutely amazing!!!! I loved this episode almost as much as the musical. I have a few thoughts though. In response to dark angel: I don't know if she is just using him, I mean come on, she has not even come close to killing Spike, even before he admitted how much he loves her I think they are both in a dark place between worlds and they fit. Spike and Buffy do not fit in with everyone else, and everyone seems a little scared of both of them, it is no wonder that they seem to fall into each other. Even when they were Randy and Joan, they had a few moments when they looked at each other. I must say I am thoroughly enjoying their relationship this season. In a way it reminds me of the Cordelia Xander thing, they hate, they kiss, they6 fight, they kiss, only with more angsty feelings and soulfull looks.

This episode was just so damn funny, The bunnies: need I say more

Giles and Spike "Randy Giles, no wonder I hate you"
and when Willow realizes, again, that she is gay, anyone remember doppleganger when Willow goes I am evil and skanky and I think I am kinda gay.

I didn't quite buy the giles Anya thing, but it was pretty funny when Spike was going on about dad marrying a tart half his age

Great one 9.5 out of 10
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 04:01   #11
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My take on Buffy choosing the name Joan wasn't that it was close to Joyce but that subconsiously she was thinking Joan of Arc and the similiarities there.

I love that finally we get an episode with live music that actually is connected to the episode. The lyrics to the song playing in the Bronze were quite fitting for this episode.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 04:24   #12
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Hey, does anyone have an idea how Spike's suit relates to Restless? I noticed it's the exact same one, if I'm not mistaken....
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 04:25   #13
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Didn't love it, 7/10

Loved most of it, but it was still a bit of a let down after last weeks, an it didn't further the arc enough for my taste-- a little more of that last scene w/ Giles and Tara leaving, and a little less of all that middle funny stuff would have been better IMO

Spike/Giles-- Harkened back to Restless a bit, for me anyway, and I'm surprised no one else mentioned that... (If someone did and I missed it, sorry, I'm a bad bad man.)

Giles/Anya-- Liked their chemistry better than Anya/Xander, and that's kinda weird. (and a little illegal, but not really. )

Spike/Buffy-- If they just keep teasing us in the last 5 seconds of the episode, and then deal with it briefly in the first 5 minutes of the next one, heads are gonna roll. But I have a feeling they won't.

Was it me or did the promo give away just a little too much about next weeks episode? I felt dirty, like when I read the spoiler board and convince myself later that I don't know whats gonna happen. Especially cause I didn't know what next week was about.

The Bronze live act was Michelle Branch, in case anyone was curious and didn't know (Whirling mentioned something about it...)-- she has a pretty good CD out called "The Spirit Room" or something like that.

ryan

argh! Righeoutsman posted while I was writing, so now I look kinda dumb...

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Old 14th Nov 2001, 04:46   #14
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OK I JUST figured out the spell.

The flower that she left to burn to power the spell was too close to the entire bag left on the floor. The WHOLE bag went up in flames and thats why everyone within that radius was effected and the effect was so much stronger.

At least thats my take upon second viewing watching the big bag of lethe's bramble get hit by the spark and flare up.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 05:22   #15
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Rayn:

Well, if I'd been a minute later, it would be reversed -- no big in my books....


BTW, rewatched the dream sequence -- Giles mentions that Spike is like a son to him. Now, if that was a reference to this ep, hats off to JAC -- never thought they planned out their eps THIS far in advance. Although it raises the question of when Joss changed his vision of BTVS from 5 years, as he has maintained for many years.....


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Old 14th Nov 2001, 10:08   #16
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Lynn: About Willow not knowing she was gay; you can only know that you are gay or not after you have felt an attraction. Untill then, i think you pretty much assume you're not. Besides that, I still feel she fell in love with Tara. The person Tara, not the woman Tara.

Buffy & Spike - I think we have the opposite of what happened with Riley. She loved Riley, but didn't need him, and now she needs Spike, but doesn't love him.

Rayn & Righteousman : Spookygal beat you both to it with the 4th post
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 13:22   #17
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I loved this ep! The bunnies and whole Anya/Giles thing was hilarious. That alone rates it at least a 8/10. Plus the other stuff puts it to a 9/10, IMHO.

I'd like to address some specific points that have been brought up.

Buffy - Joan Name
Rather than thinking "Joan" is close to "Joyce", I immediately thought back to Big Mack's post in the S6.07 Review:
Quote:
We learned that Willow is going to get, as kids now-a-days say it, joaned (made fun of. Get teased.) (pronounced just as spelled, joan-ed)

I think this choice of names was JAC using some a new slang term.

The Spell
One of the few times I've gotten something before others: It was obvious to me right away that in her hurry to leave, Willow had accidently left the baggie too close to the fire and a chance (chance? in the Buffyverse?) spark had caused the spell to go out of control, as Tara had warned.

Innate Personalities
I thought the ep did a great job of showing each character's innate personality coming through after the initial confusion.

Willow's Problem
I agree that this ep showed it, to me, as an addiction.
spoiler: S6.09
1
2
3
4
5


But the previews for next week's ep seem to indicate that after a possible brief remorse, it becomes much worse.

5
4
3
2
1


Giles' Leaving
I fully agree with Giles and his reason for leaving. Buffy's 20 years old and never "been away from home". Yes, she is the Slayer, but a person can never truly become independent and mature as long as there is still the 'apron string' to home and their parent(s). As long as Giles remains, I don't think Buffy can ever grow into an adult.

Spike's Disguise
So obvious a back ref to Restless. This is what makes JAC a genius, IMHO.

Bronze Band
To me, any time a show has a "name" band appearance, it cheapens the ep. It's like, "whoops, we're running a few minutes short for this ep, so let's get a band and 'fill'". Particularly since in 6 months, no one will remember who they were, given the half-life of most pop groups. I do agree that the song lyrics were appropriate, I just object to the multiple shots of the band.

Dawn's Reaction
I'm not sure if her running away from Tara was a sign of being upset with Tara or of Dawn just being too sad to deal with it.

Land Shark
Yes, the costume was cheesy, but that added to the charm of the ep, IMO. And I'm always a sucker for running jokes, so the kitten ref was very funny for me.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 14:31   #18
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YES!!!!!!!

I loved it, I loved it! 9.5/10. It's no secret that I have never been a big fan of Tara, but I suffice to say that it was sad to see her go. Although I was still glad that she left, it showed that she was standing up for herself, and that she wasn't going to be manipulated. And now, it looks like things are going to heat up!

I liked the Angel parody with Spike, loved the Randy/Giles/Joan stuff.

A fitting song at the end. This season rocks the house.

Are we entering a new type of Buffy era?
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 15:00   #19
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Well, I don't think it's too surprising that I really enjoyed this ep as well. The funny lines and situations when everyone lost their memory. The bunnies had me ROTFLOL. The shark guy was eh. I too hope we don't see him any more.

Willow
Well, I don't know that I agree with you all about Willow being adicted to use her power. I do feel like she's been corrupted by it. I feel that she lied to Tara's face about not using magic. Maybe she thought at that exact moment that she'd follow through. However, she's brought someone back from the dead. She successfully wiped Tara's memory before. Why not do it again and all will be well for her? It will be interesting to see how everyone else starts interacting with Willow after this. She mentioned the memory spell around Anya and Xander. Will they be upset, tell Buffy?

Music
I was so excited by the live music singing everyone's pain while we got the montage of what everyone was doing. I've so missed this in the show. Not to mention, I really liked the song.

Buffy/Spike
Mmmmmm. Spike. Definitely don't see how Buffy could resist here. <VBG>
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 15:39   #20
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Posting my usual disclaimer: Unfortunately not enough time to read thru all the post, though I did read the first few before my daughter started being whiny. So, just posting this without know if some stuff has been said again and again already.

Well, I loved this ep. Like a lot of people, I was expecting a letdown after last week (and even moreso after I heard from 2 people last night that this ep was pretty good. When I get my expectations raised, sometimes the show has trouble meeting them. ). But I just thoroughly enjoyed it. It had everything I love about Buffy - great comedy, great drama, those subtle little continuity touches, romance. I wasn't really sold on Kirshner from last year. She did Tough Love right? Heh, she seems to specialize in Willow/Tara angst. But I thought she did a great job, and looking forward to seeing what she does with her next ep.

Some of my fave funny lines (and there were a lot to choose from):

1. Spike talking about the kiss in the teaser: "All 'Gone With the Wind' with the rising music and the rising....music."

2. Anya about Giles and Spike: "There is a ruggedly handsome resemblance" Especially liked Giles smile after she said that.

3. Also, after Buffy first slayed a vamp, when they asked how she did it: "I don't know, but it was cool." (It was more her delivery, all excited, than the actual line itself)

4. And like everyone else, loved the thing where Spike basically made himself out to be Angel: "I must be a noble vampire, a good guy, on a mission of redemption. I help the helpless. A vampire with a soul." Also loved Buffy's "How lame is that?"

5. And I also just got a kick everytime someone referred to Buffy or Spike as Joan or Randy. Gave me a chuckle.

6. And unlike KoChina, I did like the "And I think I'm kinda gay." Like I said earlier, a nice little touch of continuity, and it was funny. And how did it cheapen the line in Doppelgangland? That was just a funny little line in that ep too. There wasn't really anything to cheapen. It wasn't some weighty realization that she was gay in that ep.

7. And I don't have it all written down, but I loved Spike spouting all the British slang words when he came to the realization he was in fact British.

And I thought this exchange between Willow and Tara perfectly showed what this whole storyline is about. Willow: "I just want to help people." Tara: "Maybe that's how it started, but you're helping yourself now, fixing things to your liking." Just because it started one way, that's not what she's getting punished for. It's become twisted, which Tara and Willow's actions in this ep illustrated.

And it made perfect sense to me to see Willow do something right after saying she wouldn't. Though it does show just how far gone she is at this point. Most addicts when confronted with something like their lover leaving them will promise to stop, and then go right back to what they were doing, be it drugs, gambling, or in this case, magic. So at this point, it's pretty obvious that she is addicted.

I also thought it was another nice piece of work on Kirshner's part that, given that the main thrust of this ep was the negative effects magic is having on Willow, she reinforced the danger of using magic willy-nilly on a smaller level with Anya and Giles in the Magic Box. Was another subtle touch in the ep that I liked. (Another really small thing that I liked was that they had Dawn refer to Xander by the more common nickname for him, Alex.)

And I loved the Restless parallel. Cuz that's the first thing I thought of when I saw Spike in that outfit, and they reinforced it even more with the "son" stuff. Again, another great continuity touch. I don't think this particular ep was in mind when they originally did that in Restless. But it's nice that they went out of their way to make the effort to make a connection back to Restless. Again, another nice little bit of continuity.

And I loved Tara standing up to Willow the way she did in the beginning and actually breaking it off. I don't think we've ever really seen Tara be that forceful or strong. Even the last time they had a major argument in Tough Love, she was basically apologizing for saying anything in the first place and trying to forget she mentioned anything. The only time I can think of that comes close is in All the Way when she confronted Willow, but even that wasn't like this. It made it that much more powerful when she did lash out at Willow a bit now.

A lot of people mentioned at Illout about Giles exit being a but rushed And I can see that. I would've liked to seen a goodbye scene. Especially considering Buffy's anger toward him leaving. That scene really needed to be in there, so we could see her either starting to come to terms with it, or else see Buffy still angry with him (which would've made for a pretty good dramatic scene, I think). That was really my only problem with the ep. The Giles departure. I didn't mind the shark guy really. He was weak, but like last week, this was a character-driven ep, not plot-driven, and they did great with the character stuff. So I kind overlook Sharkboy.

And they spent a good deal of time letting us wallow in Willow's and Tara's pain. I thought that was so sad, and I think they did a good job showing Tara leave without a word spoken. There was nothing left to say. She made one last plea to Willow, and Willow couldn't go one day without magic, let alone a week, or a month. She just flat out lied to Tara,again. Like I said, nothing more to be said at that point.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Loved the ending! After Buffy turned away from Spike, I thought maybe they were gonna play off last week as a one-time thing that Buffy just wanted to forget happened. I was actually surprised when they showed them kissing, but I thought it was great. Although, it appears she's apparently back in want-to-forget mode next week. But I hope we get more of it. As I said, I don't expect (nor am I sure if I want) a real relationship between them. But I so would love a little fling before Buffy realizes it can't be. And they've set it up so well over a year's time that it would totally work. IMO, anyway.

So, to sum up, I was a bit worried after we got 3 clunkers in a row before the musical, but these last 2 eps have totally restored my faith in Joss and in S6. Given that preview, I'm so looking forward to next week as well (that's all I'm gonna say, don't wanna spoil anyone. ). As for this ep, I think it may be my second fave of the season after last week's ep. I give it a 9.5/10 (if they had just put a damn Giles leaving scene in, might've reached 10/10. )
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 16:11   #21
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*sigh* NO ONE does humor/heartbreak like JAC. What a great ep.

I'm SO sad to see Tara and Giles both leave in the same ep. It leaves me wondering what will happen to them both. I imagine Tara will go back to the dorms. Will we be seeing more of her? I can't see her helping out the Scoobies while Willow's around. And what about Giles? It would take something HUGE to bring him back to SD, IMO.

Okay, on to the funny. Can I just say OMJ! I can't remember the last time I laughed so hard at an ep. When Anya was conjuring all the bunnies I totally lost it. That was so great

Spike/Giles and Spike/Buffy (or Randy/Joan) interaction was just great. Loved the play on Angel.

I think everyone else has pretty much mentioned all the funny stuff.

Anyway, good ep. Can't wait to see what happens next week, as usual. Looks like Willow is getting herself in deeper.

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Old 14th Nov 2001, 17:28   #22
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Cool

OK just noticed something else and I'm not even watching the ep.

First of all the Shark dude was cooler than I originally thought. I could be totally wrong about this but during the scenes he's in doesn't he pretty much stay in constant motion. Motion much like an actual shark? If thats true then I'll notch him up a couple levels.

The second thing is... Sure we had this reference to Spike and Giles in Restless as being like father and son, and they may not have been thinking of this ep when they did so. But notice that at the end of the episode Buffy (with no one to turn to now that Giles has left) goes to Spike.

This has been happening all year as she tells Spike where she was. (Which she may well have told Giles if he'd been there at the time, kind of hard to say) So I wouldn't be surprised if Spike becomes the new person she runs to.

It kind of seemed in Restless that Giles was grooming Spike to take his place. That seems to be somewhat what is happening. Its possible Spike wearing the suit from restless was just to help point all of this out.

Its also possible that I'm delusional. But that doesn't immediately rule out the possibility of my being right. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Unless its not very broken.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 17:32   #23
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I don't have much time, therefore I only had a chance to skim through everything.

Just a few points:

Everyone has posted about Tara and Giles leaving. They didn't die... they could always come back.

An-ya (Giles: "Enya"). "Hey, my name's An-ya!" LOL!

Tara seemed so tired during her argument with Willow. It was as if it didn't matter what she was saying, Willow was just going to defy her again, and therefore she didn't seem to shocked when she learned the truth at the end.

LOL @ The bunnies! I could not stop laughing!

And what was Dawn's problem at the end? It was Willow's fault!

And hey! I guess now we know where everyone keeps getting beautiful new clothing: Willow makes it for them with her magic.

Come back Tara... Come back...
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 19:18   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hostile-17

The other complaint is actually more of a query. What was the deal with the spell? Did it have some sort of blast radius or something? Tara and Buffy were the only named folk in the spell so that wasn't it. But everyone in the magic shop was effected and it certainly seemed as if no one outside of the magic shop was effected.


It might have only been Buffy and Tara mentioned by name, but what good would it have done to make Buffy forget that she had been in heaven, when Xander Dawn and everybody else still knew.

As far as I could tell, the only people who were wiped out were the ones who knew about Buffy being in heaven, or knew about the memory wipe Willow had already done to Tara.

That's my opinion about why the spell worked on only the people it did, and not on the entire town. It only went after the people who had memories of Willow's sins.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 19:55   #25
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Cool

Good idea Raygun. It works well with the spell flaring up greater than expected due to the overload of material components.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 21:47   #26
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OK here's something unusual... on rewatching I enjoyed this ep a little less... mark is revised down to a 8.5/10. This is basically due to the plot-craters (too big to call them holes) regarding the spell, its effects and why Willow did it! I agree about the extra herbs catching fire btw, but that isn't a good enough explanation imo.

Mostly my problems with it were covered by Raygun above, but there is another one: How could Willow expect that to work??? No spell like that ever works!! She's supposed to be super smart - how long could Buffy forget about heaven without any of the others noticing? The whole spell was just lame. The consequences were excellent and very well handled, but it was mega-deus-ex-machina time there.

Two bits of sloppy writing in two weeks - Sniffle.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 22:27   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteousman
The Spell

OK, knowing nothing about the spells, I have to voice another major objection -- in Superstar, Jonathan had to change the world's perception (or at least Sunnydale) of him; must have been a killer to do & maintain... So, we get a similar spell by Willow to affect several people, and it takes one flower, a crystal and a few words? Screams "cheap plot device" to me. Plus, as with Superstar, I would have thought the spell would have affected more than just the Gang, but oh well....


Ok, having read all the posts, just wanted to say a few things. First, RM, to me they are 2 completely different spells. Johnathon's is much more complex. He altered the perceptions of the entire world. Changing past history and people's views of him. Big time stuff.

Willow just wanted to wipe out the memory of a specific thing from a small group of people. Did you have a problem with the Lethe's Bramble spell in All the Way? Cuz it's pretty much the same kinda thing. There she wanted to wipe out the memory of the fight. Here she wanted to wipe out the memory of heaven for Buffy (and perhaps for those around her).

And why would more than the gang have been affected? If someone's gonna make an argument about who was affected, I would think that they would say it shoulda been just Buffy and Tara, not more people than the gang. Besides, I think Raygun's explanation works rather well. And even though she specifically mentioned Buffy and Tara, perhaps the spell was supposed to wipe out all those who knew about the heaven thing. More on that below.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn
Mostly my problems with it were covered by Raygun above, but there is another one: How could Willow expect that to work??? No spell like that ever works!! She's supposed to be super smart - how long could Buffy forget about heaven without any of the others noticing? The whole spell was just lame. The consequences were excellent and very well handled, but it was mega-deus-ex-machina time there.


Well, I thought this was also kinda answered by Raygun. I actually think the spell may have been intended to affect all those who knew about it. She only said Buffy and Tara's names but perhaps that's because theirs are the only direct memories she'd want to block out, if ya know what I mean. She wants to erase Buffy's memories of heaven, and wants to erase Tara's memory of their most recent fight. The others, she just wants to erase their knowledge of these things (memories about knowing about memories) so she didn't name them.

But even if that's not the case, since she is erasing Tara's memory, I think Willow thought that others probably wouldn't mind so much. They don't seem to have a problem with her doing magic, and might think of it as helpful (at least in Willow's mind). Except for Giles. Maybe she was figuring people weren't exactly gonna be talking about it around Buffy anyway.

But, even if that's not the case, have you been watching Willow recently? She's an addict. She's not thinking of the ramifications, addicts rarely do. She had good intentions, and she wanted to use magic, so that's all that mattered to her. If she didn't intend the spell to affect all them, I basically think she wasn't even thinking about what anyone else would think. Obviously, since she just completely disregarded what Tara said to her the night before. I don't think she even took into account that some people might think it was a bad idea. So I don't see a big problem with her doing the spell.

Finally, just wanted to mention a couple of things I forgot to include in my (first) lengthy post earlier. Am I the only one that's not really buying the whole Giles leaving thing? I mean, they have set it up and it does sorta make sense, him leaving for her own good. But I still think Giles probably wouldn't have left yet. It's only happening because ASH wants to go. And it feels like it's only happening cuz ASH wants to go, it doesn't feel like something organic that's just coming from the story as it progresses. I think even if Giles did feel this way, he would still give her a few more weeks instead of just taking off after that HUGE revelation last week. That annoyed me a bit actually.

Also, I found it interesting that Willow and Tara, as well as Buffy and Spike (not to mention Buffy and Dawn in a sisterly way) still gravitated toward each other. Yet Xander, if he gravitated toward anyone, it was probably Willow. And Anya got with Giles. Makes you wonder a bit about what that says about their relationship. Tara and Willow are bigtime fighting and still seem to be finding each other, and Xander and Anya are engaged yet don't.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 22:38   #28
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Me sad. Me soooooo sad. Me must put sadness into poetic form:

An Ode to Giles
You, with your handkerchief and books of Latin --
Why must you leave us?
Can you clean your glasses no more?
Are you tired of getting knocked unconscious?
Sure, you want to smack Xander,
when he pipes up with another stupid comment.
Of course, you want to run the magic shop,
and not leave it in Anya's money-grubbing hands.
So why don't you?
Oh Ruppie --
If you stayed, I would make you tea.

The End *bows*

Really good ep - glad that Tara had the backbone to keep her word and leave since Willow was being a poophead. And what in the holy heck is happening with B/S? That canoodling can only lead to trouble. I give it 8/10

As for next week, did anyone see a parallel with Buffy/Faith when they were co-Slaying?
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 22:59   #29
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Love the poem Ms. Giles. We'll all miss him.
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 23:23   #30
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Rocky:

Actually, I accept Raygun's theory as quite plausible.

My objections re: Buffy & Tara versus Tara in All The Way are several-fold; I'll address them divided by either possibility:

1) Buffy/Tara As Targets Alone

In All The Way, Willow wanted Tara to forget a fight they had; basically the same day, between them both -- much easier to do. As witnessed by Dawn's recollection, the scope of the spell was limited to Tara alone (for one day); much more believable for the spell (mind control) to have this effect on only one person for such a short period of time. If the original intent of the second spell was to have only Buffy/Tara forget, I'd still have thought more was required. Also, the focus on Buffy/Tara alone opens up a whole bunch of other problems -- for example, how do the others stay silent (especially Giles, right?)? How do you explain the lost summer of memories for Buffy? Too many holes, not enough explanations.


2) The Whole Gang As Targets

Assuming that that more Buffy & Tara were involved, then it poses different yet equally difficult logistical issues. In this ep, Willow wants Buffy, Tara, & the others to forget a much broader range of memories, involving many days, and many interactions with other people. The complexity of such a spell would IMHO be far greater than in All The Way -- while Jonathan's spell may be even more complicated, the point is that unlike All The Way, we're not talking about one day's worth of memories involving only 2 people (Willow & Tara) -- we're talking about wiping out Buffy's memory of heaven, the last several weeks in Sunnydale, and of course, more memories for Tara. Add in the effect on more people, and we have a much, much more complex spell.

So, although I find Raygun's explanation plausible, my take remains the same -- far too easy a spell for a much more complex intended effect.

Cheers,
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 23:24   #31
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OMG!

OMG, Willow in towels fresh out of the shower! When I saw that I knew that this was gonna be a great episode. Even if the Three Stooges were to appear as main villains. Directly after that, Willow in sexy black clothes with her boobs nearly popping out at times (approximately right before my eyes did) confirmed my suspicions: this was a great ep!

OMG, I can't believe that bitch Willow! (did I just say that out loud?) How could she betray Tara like that? Lovely, LOVELY and very sweet Tara. And why do I still feel that Willow has only good intentions. But what good are they when her eyes are as black as her magick and she can't see that she's hurting all the ones she loves. Will Tara's departure (PLEASE Tara, don't disappear! At least not from my screen. Don't let Dawn fool you: we all still love you!) be enough to make her see what she's doing and that it is all her own stupid fault? It damned better will, Will!

OMG, how hard did I laugh at all the references! (my neighbours can probably fill you in on that). Spike doing the Angel routine and Buffy nearly vomiting at the thought of a Vampire with a soul helping the helpless in search of redemption. And how cute and wonderful were Willow and Tara together, finding each other all over again ("I think I'm kinda gay"). LOL @ Anya summoning rabbits as well. Man, this ep hurt.... my stomach from laughing out loud.

OMG, how can Giles leave Buffy now? Why can't he be like a father to her? Fathers don't have to decide everything for their daughters. Giles can say 'no' to Buffy when he feels she should do something by herself. Buffy lost her father long ago, recently her mother and nearly her sister. She actually had to go to heaven and back (without having anything to say in that last matter) to save her 'sister'. And now her surrogate father finds it best to leave her? Why? Is that what all fathers do when their kids grow up? And yeah, I know the Real Life answer to the question. But that doesn't fly in the Buffyverse. Giles does.

OMG, Spike and Buffy liplocked *again* at the end of this ep. Is this going to be how all eps end from now on, cause then I'll switch channels in the last minute next time. I can say only this: Buffy has really lost it now that Giles has left her and Willow has messed with her life again. What Willow practically did was bring Buffy back from heaven *twice*.

OMG, how lame was the badly grimed Shark playing the loan-shark (or is that lame-shark)? And how little did I care as the episode progressed. Yep, not even a shark dressed in a Heffner-suit could ruin this ep for me. He even brought some vampire muscle with him making for some cool Slayer-vampire fighting scenes again. And making Spike look cool as well. Hey, I think I like this shark guy. But what does a shark want with kittens, shouldn't he be pumping Spike for salmon or something? I'm sure that the hair from all those Kittens would badly mess up his digestive system.

OMG, so much was happening in this episode, many of which was great stuff, that I probably forgot half of what I wanted to mention in this review. This was a very good (dunno about perfect) follow-up to last week's ep. Though I can't hardly stand both Tara and Giles leaving. I know that Giles is a done deal, but I *really* hope that Tara will find ways to pop in her head in every ep. Hey, someone has to thumbwrestle with Anya and Dawn. And someone has to do the steaming shower scene... never mind that, Willow will suffice.


Bye, Patrick
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Old 14th Nov 2001, 23:48   #32
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I wont go into a long ramble about this post (yet <VBEG>) but I will say that I loved it!

It was a very good follow on to last weeks episode. This season really does rate one of the best if not THE best for me (so far anyway )
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Old 15th Nov 2001, 02:39   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteousman
1) Buffy/Tara As Targets Alone

In All The Way, Willow wanted Tara to forget a fight they had; basically the same day, between them both -- much easier to do. As witnessed by Dawn's recollection, the scope of the spell was limited to Tara alone (for one day); much more believable for the spell (mind control) to have this effect on only one person for such a short period of time. If the original intent of the second spell was to have only Buffy/Tara forget, I'd have thought more was required. Also, the focus on Buffy/Tara alonet opens up a whole bunch of other problems -- for examle, how do the others stay silent (especially Giles, right?)? How do you explain the lost summer of memories for Buffy? Too many holes, not enough explanations.


Well, actually, the more I think about it, while I also think Raygun's theory is quite plausible, I tend to lean more towards the idea that the magic junkie wasn't even thinking about the consequences. Hence she didn't consider how'd she have to keep Giles silent. And if she thought about it all, you could always explain away the summer of lost memories with "You were dead." "We don't know why you don't remember your dead time." And actually, back to the keeping the others silent thing, I think if she did think about that, she would've figured they would see it like her. That she was helping Buffy. And that they probably would be reticent to talk about it around her at all anyway.

As to the first part of your post, I really don't see it being that much more to do it on Buffy and Tara. Besides, it was a bit more involved than what she did to Tara in All the Way. And actually more involved than most of her magic. She can tune out all noise, physically move human beings, make a non-corporeal demon take form, all with a single word (with no help from any charms, magical ingredients or the like). She can communicate telepathically without doing any spell that we've been made aware of. Apparently just by thinking it. And she was able to eliminate a portion of someone's memories with a single word (not to mention transforming that flowery thing into a Lethe's Bramble). It wasn't just the same thing. She needed to actually get different ingredients, perform some sort of ritual, and recite a chant. And it required that crystal to keep it intact (I don't think the Lethe's Bramble was keeping the former spell intact. It was just sort of helping out. ). I mean, this wasn't raising the dead. I don't know what more you'd want to have her do. It seemed sufficiently complex to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteousman
2) The Whole Gang As Targets

Assuming that that more Buffy & Tara were involved, then it poses similar logistical problems. In this ep, Willow wants Buffy, Tara, & the others to forget a much broader range of memories, involving many days, and many interactions with other people. The complexity of such a spell would IMHO be far greater than in All The Way -- while Jonathan's spell may be even more complicated, the point is that unlike All The Way, we're not talking about one day's worth of memories involving only 2 people (Willow & Tara) -- we're talking about wiping out Buffy's memory of heaven, the last several weeks in Sunnydale, and of course, more memories for Tara. Add in the effect on more people, and we have a much, much more complex spell.

So, although I find Raygun's explanation plausible, my take remains the same -- far too easy a spell for a much more complex intended effect.


Well, I tend to agree with you more here. But again, despite me somewhat espousing the idea of the spell being for the whole gang earlier, I'm sorta leaning away from that now. So, I'm not sure she did target all of them (and really the ep doesn't indicate that, though I think it's plausible). I actually think if anything, the spell just backfired getting all of them.

I recall people asking why it only affected the Magic Box, but now actually, now that I think about it, do we have any evidence whatsoever that the rest of the Sunnydale didn't become affected by this? I can't remember really seeing much evidence at all other than the the shark, and the vamps. It could've just not affected demons and worked on Spike because of the chip, or because he's so undemony already. In fact, I'm thinking maybe they took care not to show anyone else, so they wouldn't have to show them being affected. It could just be assumed. So, if I'm right, the spell could've backfired, just affecting the whole area. She didn't target all of them, cuz she was stupid and not looking at the fact that they would certainly eventually say something to Buffy about heaven. But the spell just backfired when the whole bag ignited. Or, if you don't like that (and I'm not sure I do now after re-reading it, that's a bit of a stretch. If it wasn't for Spike though, it'd be perfectly plausible ), I don't think it's that out of whack for it to effect people in the proximity of Buffy and Tara if the spell backfired.

So, the original spell didn't have to be any more complex than targeting Tara and Buffy, and I detailed above why I thought it was fairly more complex than a lot of Willow magic (and specifically her magic in All the Way). The spell just had a bigger effect because it went wrong. And actually, you could argue that simply wiping the slate clean may be easier than isolating a specific event or events and wiping them out (although again, I don't think that was the intention of the spell).

So, I don't think this was too complex a spell for what they showed.
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Last edited by BigRock : 15th Nov 2001 at 02:46.
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Old 15th Nov 2001, 05:48   #34
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This was pretty much like one of those fairly mediocre season 2 or 3 episodes like say, Revelations. The main plot isn't steller, but the B storys are well done.

I can't say I loved this episode though, just like I can't say I loved Revelations.

I'll start with the good... there was humor, and a lot was funny. Randy was great.. I loved all that stuff. Very funny. Giles leaving is also a good story arc, but I guess that's over. The ties to Restless are great here. Giles and Spike is ripped right out of that. Giles is leaving, Spike is now Buffy's support. The Spike thinking he was a vampire with a soul was great, and telling of his subconscence desire to BE Angel. The Tara/Willow stuff is actually fasinating for the first time in ages... AND OH MY GOD WE GET A SONG TIE IN!

For Tara/Willow, this is good. Yeah, I thought they were a cute couple too, but this has passed, and I have generally grown sick of them. To be quite honest, I hope Oz comes back and Willow and Tara are through. No simple reset button though, Oz would have to come to terms with Willow's admiting that she's either attracted to both men and women, or just women and she only went out with Oz and had her Xander crush because it was the right thing to do. I think it would be the former. To be honest, I always liked the idea that Willow never was gay or bisexual, but that she was just so in love with Tara the person that it didn't matter what gener she was.... but I guess all the referances to her being attracted to women (in this episode and others) can't be erased. I know Oz wont be coming back but oh well. I think I'm kind of alone in thinking that Willow and Tara should stay apart... but I think it would be best if they did. Have Tara as a reoccuring character perhaps... maybe in the same way that Jenny was? I like Tara, but just not with Willow.

Let me get onto the bad of this episode....

We'll start from the begining. What the **** is with this "monster" of the week? maybe monster of the weekend afternoon, next time on power rangers! the Snake from last season can now go home, we have a new champion. And he wants kittens?? I think I was too quick on my praise of the joke being funny. I'll rephrase... it was funny when it was a room full of loser demons in a shoddy bar. Like how a room full of loser humans in a shoddy bar might gamble with beers or smokes, as that's all they can bet. In the demon world, kittens might be a good alternative as well. But now we have someone who is seemingly a fiarly powerful demon crime boss who wants them. Sorry, I just don't buy it. Even if kittens are a delacasy or something I don't buy it.

The memory thing.. well.. like other memory episodes like TNG one I can recall, it has it's problems, but I thought this one had a few more than average. First of all, ow it came to be, which I see was mentioned above a little... Willow is stupid enough to LEAVE HER BAG OUT? Well hey Willow, you know.. maybe someone might see your bag of magic forget flowers... oh wait, you could just make them forget that.. never mind.

When we did have them all effected, they could rememebr certain things, but not others. Giles didn't know magic was real... but yet he grew up with it being normal to him. I don't know, I would have thought just personal memorys were lost. Spike knew how to referance Mary Poppins and such. I don't know, the mind is a very strange thing. So I guess I can just write this off as that. Because people do loose their memorys like this, and strange things can and can not be rememebred.

And how stupid as Willow's gay line? maybe it was funny in a remember season 3 kind of way, well that works only if the line makes sense in the context of it's new usage. Like Spike's thinking he had a soul. Even if you don't know about Angel, you could understand what Spike is saying, that he thinks he has a soul and is helping others. Willow's lline pretty much makes no sense.

I'd put Buffy and Spike kissing in the bad list, but really, it's not bad yet. Right now all Buffy is using Spike for is some sexual fun. If it stays like this it's fairly belivable.

To be honest I don't know why everyone loved this episode... I'm just not all that thrilled, and it's becoming less and less clear why I even watch the show anymore and visit the forums. I know you guys love it, and I don't think I really belong in a forum about a show I don't love as much anymore, all I can do is ruin the fun of others.
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Old 15th Nov 2001, 10:54   #35
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On Joan... didn't somewhere in the first three seasons Buffy say something like how she wished she could be "plain old joan" as opposed to being the slayer and stuff?
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