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Old 14th Dec 2001, 06:44   #36
calishell
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Could this be the worst ep of Angel ever? Probably, but I'd have to see She again to be sure. Ugh, HATED how Angel held the baby. Almost turned it off. Also didn't like the watcher/slayer play with Holtz. The scene in the cemetary almost left me queazy. I don't know why, but I didn't like it at all.
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Old 14th Dec 2001, 10:42   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigRock
I'm confused (and curious), why does everyone like the file clerk?


For me she's cool because she embodies the coolness and in-controlness that used to characterize W&H. She's a reminder of the good old days of W&H. She's an oasis of rest in the chaos that is W&H nowadays.


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Old 14th Dec 2001, 11:42   #38
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edited stuff. Mostly, I changed my mind about a number of things after partial rewatch..

Lets see....I'm not too impressed with the (new?) writer, I must say.

Didn't hate the ep, didn't love it, I'm sorta not too clear on what to do with it. I can't quite see it being worse than things like, oh, 'She'.

Rewatch does help; shows you how good the buildup actually was, although the pacing, if you don't know, is still not the best in the world.

Angel and the Baby

Well, bah. Enough already! Can we kill it soon, mistah? Please? That came out all wrong and disturbing, didn't it?

Let me put it this way: all the Angel/Connor scenes were annoying. Not funny (perhaps intentionally so), quite clearly lacking in 'oomph', and please, please, PLEASE don't let DB make 'funny' faces ever again.

Oh, and Vamp face appeasing the baby? More or less the only amusing bit to the whole deal. If only Angel hadn't insisted on talking part of the way through it.

The Fang Gang

Another hearty 'hmm' for the first 30 minutes of the episode or so. Cordy's not quite in here usual snappy, biting form (well, unless you count 'If we survive this, get rid of your DVD players and get a Life' line, which cracked me up muchly..) Granted, in retorspect, much of it makes sense. So I'll come back on that one.

Bamboozling around, making charts (amusing, though the punnage surrounding them isn't; somehow, though, 'Life Serial' and it's 'Miniturize Fort Knox' takes the crown..and I don't even like that episode.) Gunn and Wes, mwah, Fred, rather pointless. Lorne's jokes were lost on the Gang, but weren't of any particularly amazing interest in the first place.

Woflie and the fluffy little Hart

Rather, well, gutless. I liked 'Files and Records' (see P@rick's explanation of why ), although, yes, the joke was played a few times too often. Lilah's the only one with bite, Gavin's role as a foil for Lilah works well, and that's fun; those two aren't what 'bother' me. New 'Boss' dude makes me miss Holland that much more, though, because he doesn't have that subdued edge...And note how truly pathetic W&H's security system is.

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

OK, so, twist had me rather fooled. Was Good. They played that quite nicely, and more or less lets the rest off the hook. I was waiting for Lorne to figure out the bugs as soon as he uttered the 'high pitched hum' thing, so, well, I glad he did. This part worked, despite the rather tacky 'car chase' stuff.

Bad was the Baby. Mentioned that. And the overall wonkiness of the plot pacing.

Ugly: hmm...pass.

Holtz

I dunno. I'm not bored by him, but I'm not particularly intruiged, either. Liked him killing off the demons (please...McDonalds??) though. The WannaBuffyBe girl doesn't really do it for me, but I'm willing to change my mind; I'll wait and see how it pans out.

A few final thoughts: Connor: Highlander reference? Or is it Terminator? Or neither? Hmmm.....

Someone mentioned a trend forming where the 'Angel' fans don't like 'Buffy' anymore and vice versa: it's the same in many a group. I'm one of those 'odd' people who still loves both shows.
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Last edited by Mattia : 15th Dec 2001 at 02:43.
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Old 14th Dec 2001, 12:03   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anya
Also, and on a more serious note, has anyone noticed that Buffy/Angel viewers are being separated into two distinct camps?


What I have noticed is that Angel has become much more infantile lately. The jokes are mostly very predictable and childish and not seldom do the characters act stupid and contrived just for the sake of 'humor'. I want a way darker Angel which at least takes itself and its characters seriously. And I want humor, but not predictable jokes that weren't funny 240 years ago.


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Old 15th Dec 2001, 22:49   #40
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Quote:
What I have noticed is that Angel has become much more infantile lately. The jokes are mostly very predictable and childish and not seldom do the characters act stupid and contrived just for the sake of 'humor'. I want a way darker Angel which at least takes itself and its characters seriously. And I want humor, but not predictable jokes that weren't funny 240 years ago.


Woah there, I'd say the exact same thing about Buffy.... there's been fairly little good humor on Buffy for the past two years...

Certainly, Angel has had that bad humor. Wesley planning to break in with Gunn walking in, and all that Angel underestimating Cordy fighting. But I can name waaaay more on Buffy.
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 06:44   #41
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Exactly.....the name Anya ring any bells?
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 14:42   #42
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Oh dear. That's pretty much all I can say to be honest. The worst Angel ep since She and to be honest unless they get rid of the baby fast it will only get worse IMO!

3/10
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 16:48   #43
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Biz:
Woah there, I'd say the exact same thing about Buffy.... there's been fairly little good humor on Buffy for the past two years...

Certainly, Angel has had that bad humor. Wesley planning to break in with Gunn walking in, and all that Angel underestimating Cordy fighting. But I can name waaaay more on Buffy.


I don't intend this to be a pissing contest between Buffy and Angel, so I'll stick to discussing Angel for now. Moreover because this *is* an Angel review thread.

The thing is, I always fancied Angel to be cool and wise. Okay, he goofs up every once in a while and he isn't perfect. But he has 240 years worth of living experience, has seen a lot and has been through a lot. And on top of that he's a champion for the good side in the ongoing Battle between Good and Evil. Like I said, Angel is far from perfect, but I hate it when they make him act like a whimp, worrying about how he looks for instance. I rather see Angel brood an entire ep than see him act like a clown for a second. That is just not the Angel I want to see.

I explained in another thread that I'd like the series to grow darker again. If I want to see lighthearted funny, I watch Buffy (only not season 6 ). Angel has proven to be able to mix good humor with icecold darkness. They did that mostly in S1 and the first half of S2. But more and more the show is about clowns. Gunn seems only to be there to spill 'smart' remarks which mainly make him look stupid and are almost always not funny. Fred is annoying rather than funny, as they keep playing the 'babble joke' on her which was already old the first time they used it.

And I don't even want to go into what they've done with W&H. That's just sad and really disappointing.

Bottom line is: I want more thrills and less flat and predictable jokes and outright stupid behaviour by the characters. Angel as a series has a lot of potential and I really feel that they aren't using half of it at the moment. And that for me is a sad observation.

And as for an example how it should be: Skip in That Vision Thing. That was great!


Bye, Patrick
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 18:27   #44
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Maybe the writers feel they should change Angel into a Friends type show. The gang could have a series of amusing mishaps with the baby, oh the laughs! ...Joey..i mean Angel could leave the Baby on a bus!!... please stop


Actually, i just realised, Joey and Angel have the same hair
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Old 16th Dec 2001, 20:29   #45
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Quote:
The Host:
.Joey..i mean Angel could leave the Baby on a bus!!... please stop


As long as Freddy Krueger is driving you won't hear me complaining

And I love what you've done with your, what do you call it, banner


Bye, Patrick
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Old 17th Dec 2001, 09:35   #46
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K Patrick, I guess we agree then.

I don't like the humor like it has been recently, but I find that there hasn't been a lot of it like maybe you have. I enjoy the humor in Season 1 and early 2 a lot more. The humor in the final Pylea arc and most of this season has been mostly spotty. Skip was great though.

Fred's bable joke is terrible, Gunn is funny only half the time. When Angel acts like a whimp it's pretty annoying... but I wouldn't go so far to say everyone has turned into a clown. And what do you mean about Wolfram and Hart?

I also I don't think it's fair that you'll like it on Buffy and not on Angel, which has had far more sitcom style humor. The way I see it, if you think the humor is stupid, you'll think it's stupid on any show.

It is totally unfair that someone will critize Angel for it and not Buffy. I mean, they did the same lame "break in" gag Angel did two weeks earlier, and damn, at least Wesley wasn't on wires like in Mission Impossible!

But if that's how you are, then that's how you are. Power to you.
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Old 7th Jan 2002, 17:45   #47
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Well I watched this ep, and I have to admit, I think people here are stoned.

It wasn't that bad. Worst episode ever? Don't make me choke! It had some good lines, cool scenes. . .people are gonna disagree with me, but I didn't see any baby jokes, I thought it was emtional, Angel struggling to be good father. . . Holtz is still pretty cool, at least Angel has a villian this season (and the best one since the Mayor, at that)

I have to admit, I'm looking forward to the rest of this season, so far its been pretty good. . .well okay, Season 3 and Season 6 are utter crap compared to other seasons, but maybe one of them will end up enjoyable
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Old 7th Jan 2002, 19:40   #48
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Oh, crap, I can't believe I'm on DW's side.

This ep was pretty nice. I think I'd give it 7.5/10.
What I liked the most about the episode is the twist in the end - DAMN I did not see that coming! I honestly thought Angel was abandoning them again!!
I started thinking Joss had gone crazy (no wait, I mean even more crazy <G>) and actually approved such a terrible script that used last season's plot line.

BTW, does anyone else think Joss & Co. bought a really large amount of explosives and just don't know what to do with it? I mean, they blow up something big almost every other episode! What's up with that?

Oh yeah, and I also like the name Connor.

After Edit - I almost forgot to mention that I despise that stupid Holtz guy. I just can't stand him he's just too boring to be true. I even like the baby more than him. I hope he falls from a staircase and breaks his neck. I could use a good laugh.
I'll also change the score from 8/10 to 7.5/10, thinking of Holtz made me change my mind.
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Old 7th Jan 2002, 19:48   #49
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I'm with u DW its not too bad anor is Angel s3 - in fact its been a pretty good year so far. Not as good as early s2 but still it has potential to be a good year overall. Not long till the next new ep (yay!!!)
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